us like criminals. not for nothing, but mr. mayor, if you had a son who was stopped and fricked, the policy would never have gone to court because you won't have stood for it. thanks for watching. "hardball" with chris matthews is next. economic sabotage. let's play "hardball." much . >> good evening, i'm chris matthews in washington. there's news tonight that some on the american right are plotting the global explosion of a default on the u.s. national debt this fall. the plot is the to tie the regular vote to extend the debt skeel together obliteration of the affordable care act. according to the plans leaked to right leaning news organizations, any measure to finance the health care act would detonate refusal to make good on american debt, the first time this has happened in this

country's history. the repercussions of which could explode the world economic order. do the leaders of the republican party intend to go this far? do they dare to sabotage the american economy and much of the world economy in order to defund a program, the affordable care act that is the law of the land? will they go to this drastic extreme to intimidate the u.s. congress or the president or both? and if so, is this the extreme case where ideological zealotry trumps even the most preliminarial loyalty to the common national interests where anything goes, where the ends justify whatever means there are to be had no matter how menaces to the country or the world. john feehery is a republican strategist, alex wagner the host of "now" weekdays at noon eastern. alex, a number of news sources out tonight. one of them is the national review, a conservative organization, and the washington examiner which is a bit to the right of that with new stories saying the people on the republican right are planning to step back from a government

shutdown in september but the to proceed to an escalation of this fight to the basically defaulting on the national debt. that would be their threat. in the congress moved to fund the affordable care act which is the law of the land, they would cut off if they could any vote to extend the national debt and therefore, of course, default. what do you think of this? >> bad to worse, chris. i don't know. if you thought that holding the debt ceiling hostage was a bad idea, if you thought a continuing resolution holding that hostage was a bad idea, you'll hate this one. republican elders said we cannot hold the country hostage, we can't hold the budget hostage on defunding obama care. it's never going to work. the debt ceiling is an even worse idea. as the national review reported, house leadership is engaged in political wink wink kabuki theater where they have to entertain every single harebrained idea that the right flank has to placate them. the question is, at the end of

the day, can they bring them back from the brink. i think over the bush tax cuts and plan b, we saw john boehner completely fail there his grasp on the most rowdy members of his caucus seems to be loosening. you would think based on reason alone something would bring them back from the precipice but i think the country, political watchers, you and i get less and less quinned by the day that anybody's in charge here and that anybody has their hands on the wheel. >> you're nice to call it rowdy. support for government shutdown is evaporating. tea party hero rand paul stated it plainly. shut down is a bad idea he said. we'll take a listen to him. >> i don't think shutting down the government is a good idea but i do think we were elected, conservatives were elected to try to stop this overreach, this government takeover of health care. when the government's divided we should use the leverage of controlling at least part of government to try to get the law more to our liking >> if that strikes you as

reasonable and it does at that point, there are several reports the republicans are looking to drop the threat of a government shutdown this september if the affordable care act isn't dismantled. instead, they're looking at at approach which would result in something far worse, like economic arm getten. one of those reports comes from robert cost who writes "sources tell me the house gop will probably avoid using a shutdown as leverage and instead use the debt limit and sequester fights as areas for potential trades. negotiations over increasing the debt limit have frequently been used to wring concessions out of of administration." there might be movement in that direction. delay obama care in exchange for increased debt limit. when "hardball" asked -- we were asked by "hardball" about these reports, to use the debt sealing limit, a spokes flan house speaker john boehner's office said no decisions have been made. we're looking at all the options to reach our goal of repealing this law that is causing premiums to soar and full time

jobs to disappear. we've got other sources. we'll go to them later. the national review is one source we mentioned. the washington examiner points to the same. john feehery, so for a while we thought over the weekend, sanity was coming to your party and even from the par right, from the libertarian right. now the we find out their new strategy is in an escalation. they're an talking about using the debt ceiling which means you go into default if you don't extend. is it reasonable or extreme politics. >> what i would expect john boehner to say, we will not default on our debt. i don't think that. >> did he said that? >> he always said that. >> he said we're looking at all options including default. >> i guarantee you boehner. >> explain what the right is up to here if they're not in the game of sabotage. >> what the right wants to do is to get hobble as much as possible a very unpopular law which is obama care. they're worried about subsidies going into effect. they know we'll have fiscal meltdown in the long-term and i think they're worried about that

and trying to find a way to pick at this very unpopular law. i think they're going to use all their negotiating tactics they can. the interesting thing about robert kostas's explanation was sequestration. this is the give and take we can find a bigger deal on the budget deficit on the continuing resolution. >> you're missing my point. is there a threat here from people like rand paul and ted cruz and mike lee of utah from the right of your party, not the center of your party, but the hard right, that basically plays such "hardball" they're willing to threaten default on the united states dollar basically in order to get their way to kill the law of the land, which is the affordable care act? >> no, they're not going to default. >> what are all these reports about. >> they're going to try to push the fight from government shutdown which they understood was not a good fight to a bigger fight on the bigger fiscal realities facing the country. >> i want to give you another source. alex, this isn't just account

national review. it's the washington customer. the plan is to pass a 60-day cr extense that keeps discretionary spending at existing levels. then house leadership wants to roll back sequestration with conservative desires to delay, defund obama care into the debt limit fight. they're leaking this story. they're threatening it through sourcing. you know how it's done. they're putting the word out without fingerprints to get the threat out there they're willing to bring down the dollar. >> can we focus for a moment how completely absurd this is? it is literally like yelling you're not going to do your fiscal -- you're not going to keep the government running unless we establish a colony on mars. like obama care is settled law of the land. it is happening. the notion that somehow the white house is going to do settled law on the land recently upheld by the supreme court and litigated in the presidential race is ludicrous. idea that somehow there's going to be a deal made on

sequestration when half of the far right flank thinks that sequestration has actually been a great thing is also crazy. i don't see where the bargaining happens here. >> well, there's going to be a bargain. there has to be a budget deal. we've got to figure out the fiscal situation. we have to figure out entitlements. you have max baucus and dave kemp worrying about running around trying to get tax reform. we need to fix the government. at the end of the day, when you have this debt limit fight which there will be a fight. you know this chris. you were in the house. you know how hard it is to pass any debt limit extension in the house of representatives. for john boehner, he has to find a way to cobble together the votes. that requires a bigger deal. that being said, there will not be a default on the debt. >> what is the threat of sabotage mean? when you say i'm threatening to secret american economy and the world economy, what does ha mean you? say it's a bluff is what you're saying >> i'm saying they're not going to do that. i think there will be short-term

extensions. we'll go back to the boehner rule. which is we'll cut a dollar. >> when the president looks into the eyes of republican leader who are reasonable people like boehner, is he to believe they're bluffing and or telling the truth when they say we'll light the fuse for the end of the economy? >> republican leaders will say very consistently is we are not going to default on our debt. >> john, what leverage do you think republicans have if they end up going taking the nuclear option and shutting down the government or hijacking the comern economy, everybody's going to blame them. i don't understand what cards the gop has to play in this. >> let's look at polling data. i'm not sure i agree with you across-the-board. the american people generally will blame at republican. who gets the blame. according to an nbc/"wall street journal" poll, taken earlier this year, more americans, 44%, just more, not all of them would blame republicans than blame democrats, just 33% would blame the democrats. an overwhenning of democrats no

surprise would blame the republicans. but only 9% of republicans would blame their own party. a majority of can republicans, 66% wos blame president obama or the dras. i'm pointing to you the obvious political game being played by your side. if the united states reaches a breach in its debt cell, it doesn't pay its debts, your own party won't blame your own party. there is a reason why they could be serious here. >> they will blame obama. >> how are you? so sure they won't pull the trigger on this? >> i've been through about 18 of these limited fights. >> have you ever dealt with somebody like ted cruz or rand paul? have you ever dealt with mike lee? >> these guys are far to your right. >> very responsible. >> they are. >> they're not going to default on the debt. >> they've got to find the votes to pass them. you know how hard that is. >> let's take a look at what will happen. we have a list of what will happen if the debt ceiling is breached right now. a spike, a reminder of what would happen.

treasury markets would spike resulting in a dramatic increase in credit card rates and mortgage rates. numerous government services would be crippled, important government services like the prison system is, the fbi, and including the federal courts themselves for financial markets, it would precipitate global chaos. ironically, it would lead to an increase in is future deficits thanks to the economic shot. so you're sitting in china somewhere in beijing in a central bank and you learn that the united states political screwing around by something called the right wing, they're not sure what it is over there, has brought down the ability of the united states to meet debts. how many billions do you think. >> john boehner will say we're not going to default on our debt. >> i haven't heard that speech yet. >> can i just say. >> sure, you're here. >> what has happened here in the only sort of skillful thing the republicans have done is to have drawn the white house and democrats into what is an enterness seen gop war. this is the story of the modern day republican party, this is

the harvest that is wrought when you invite extremely irresponsible, i wouldn't even call them conservatives tea partiers into your house. this is not a democratic and republican debate here. this is a battle among republicans. and they are the ones that have to determine the future of that irparty and what happens at the end of this. >> this is called a budget negotiation. >> it's not called anything. it's not called anything. this is unprecedented and the idea, the notion, the notion that this is somehow a democratic prab is completely a republican fabrication. >> running the country. >> what a bug negotiation is, i say nine, you say nevin, we agree on eight. the negotiation to say if we don't fund and destroy, an act of congress, i'm blowing up the federal government. that's basically what we're talking about here. >> if you listen to these guys, they want to defund it, now they're saying delay. >> they're talking about defaulting >> they're not talking about defaulting >> they are. >> so they're not telling it

truth. >> lis. >> and they're not accurate. if you ask any republican leader which i asked three republican leaders offices today. >> on the record they won't say it, but off the record they're leaking the story they're going to blow it up. >> john feehery, former spokesman for the house leadership when they were reasonable says default is possible. alex, you're right on everything you said. >> i'm so glad you're here. >> you can doing that, too. coming up, ted cruz, we know he was born in canada, of course, but he's renouncing his canadian citizenship. he's thinking about 2016. where are all the birthers out there who have been insisting you can't be president unless you're born here in the united states? by the way, the craziest of the birthers donald trump said he was born in kenya. even if he was born in kenya by an american mother, he was just be as eligible to run for

president as ted cruz. mr. president, explain the conundrum. also the latest u.n. report lays to rest the lingering doubts about climate change. why are the global warming deniers still at it? what's in it for them? they keep denying what's obvious to the scientists and the republican governor of maine is being quoted as saying, obama hates white people. a couple serious sources is, lawmakers herd him say it. you mean he doesn't like his mother? what's going on here? finally, safety versus privacy. are all the cameras watching us out there doing us a good thing? britain has hundreds of thousands of cameras watching everybody in the streets of london. we'll talk to a guy involved in a movie about that right out of george orwell. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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you were born in canada. could you -- are you even eligible to be president of the united states? >> my mother was born in wilmington, delaware. she's a u.s. citizen so i'm a u.s. citizen by birth. >> he couldn't be more right. welcome back to "hardball." that was texas senator ted cruz telling jonathan carl he is a natural born citizen, therefore eligible to be president. cruz went the extra mile to release his birth certificate stott dallas morning news which reported cruz who was born in canada to an american mother has dual citizenship by is bai the accident of being born up there. is he said now the dallas

morning news says i may technically have dual citizenship. assuming that to be true, il renounce any canadian citizenship. nothing against canada but i'm an american by birth and a u.s. senator, i believe i should only be an american. well said. cy couldn't agree with him more. he couldn't be more right. the irony here of course, is that cruz's birth mirrors the phony scenario concocted by the birthers including donald trump to falsely have been arguing even to this day that president obama was born overseas mostly in kenya and not eligible to be president. the president was born to an american mother in the state of hawaii. that is actually in america. the birthers have been all but silent when it comes to ted cruz. cruz has already visited the important presidential primary states of iowa and south carolina. he's headed to new hampshire this month. he's giving every indication he may be thinking of running for president and is eligible to do so. he's a natural born citizen because he did not have to be

naturalize 37d that's how simple it is. he was an american at the second of his birth. joining me are texas political expert and political writer wayne slater and washington post editorial writing jonathan capehart. wayne, i couldn't be more clear in my complete and utter agreement with senator cruz. he's an american by birth. his mother was american. i don't care if you're flying in an airplane over to lead doe or somewhere in spain, if you're born to an american mother, you're an american, damn it. because you don't have to get naturalized. that's what a naturalized american means. you are a citizenship natural born. don't the crazy birthers in the state of texas which you have to report from, the cross you must carry is defending some of these guys, all that handful of birthers down there, don't they get the crazy irony that they've been accusing obama of being born to an american mother over in kenya which even in that case which wasn't the truth would still make him a natural born

american? >> i mean the real problem for the birthers is that ted cruz really was born in a foreign country. and so based 0en that argument, it really is a real problem. >> don't they get in their head, wait a minute, we've been accusing obama of doing what this guy did and we accept his natural born americanness and we've accused obama by nature of being born in this fictitious notion of being born in kenya, proof he isn't a natural born american. >> i'm going to propose they absolutely get it. you know why as well as anyone else who's watch this had closely. this never really was about obama being born somewhere. this was just say something bad about obama. the black guy in the white house who must be from somewhere else. now they find themselves, especially the folks in texas who i suspect will like that endorse ted cruz if he becomes a serious presidential candidate, now they find themselves in this conundrum where they can't or have real difficulty

gymnastically working their way around this. why is he eligible. it's a problem. >> i'm going to stick about that. the ethnic thing is pretty obvious in some cases but john, i guess i would think that in the african-american community, anybody's watching right now in that community would probably say, it's obvious to me they look upon canada as a xwhwhite country and kenya as a black country and even though it's your mother in both cases it's somehow different. >> i think they probably are with you in how you set up this conversation which is they're -- they're accusing -- well, it's senator cruz has done with the birthers accuse the president of having done which isn't true. >> right. >> so. >> how do they handle this? because he's the star. he's got the hot hand, he and rand paul. >> they don't talk about it. how about donald trump, smart guy, makes money. >> i think trump. >> how does he deal with this. >> i think donald trump. >> here he is.

i love to talk about him. he's a popular guy in some quarters, king of the birthers is a bit muddled about cruz's eligibility to be president. if you have trouble following this point of view, it's probably because trump doesn't want you to -- like eisenhower used to do, mix up the syntax so you don't know what he's saying. let's listen. >> let me ask you this, ted cruz born in canada. >> yeah. >> is he eligible to be president of the united states. >> if he was born in canada, perhaps not. i'm not sure where he was born. >> he's definitely born in canada. >> then you have to ask him that question but perhaps not. >> ted cruz's mother was an american citizen. he was an american. >> that will be ironed out. somebody told me he was born in canada. that's his thing. >> that's really his thing. >> that is what you do when you don't know what to say. it's the first time i've seen him befuddled. what do you say? kids when you're grown, you play tag, you got me. he doesn't say you got me.

>> because he's caught. remember part of that conversation was also a conversation about his birther accusations against the president. and we might all think that that's you know done with and we're not talking about it anymore but it's still happening there. people going to town hall meetings around the country saying. >> wayne, jonathan and i think may agree on this. i want to get to you on this from texas. it seems there's a very interesting compelling continuing effort to delegitimize this president. people on the right say he's a disaster which he's not, look what he's already accomplished and getting the bad guys. but they first referred to him not as the president of the united states but as a liberal leader. they refer to the health care act of 2010 as a bill. they refer to him as obama. they don't say the preds. they don't say the a law. they don't even speak the language we normally speak in civilized political debate. they've changed it so much that he's actually not really supposed to be there.

and that's their way of putting that asterisk next to him like barry bonds. he didn't really hit the home runs. he didn't get elected president. i think that's what they're up to. >> i think that's right. there is a sense in everything that's done, not only ot normal political give and take where you challenge your opponent's bills proposals, ideas, and initiatives but the idea that the person himself was never toesed supposed to be re-elected. now if they wait it out, then the guy who was never supposed to have been there who's signature accomplishment, is health care should be defunded if for no other reason because he did it and it has his name associated with? >> yes, get him off the record books. get him out. erase him in your mind. >> but chris, you know how the birther conversation is morphing into an impeachment conversation. they don't just want to wipe him off the books. they want to just get him completely out of office. accusing him of committing a

felony by forging his birth certificate. >> that, yeah. >> he's there in office illegally. and at one town hall forum, congressman fahrenheit holt was asked what can be done and he willingly talked impeachment is not really an option because we don't have the votes in the senate. we could convict him in the house, we could bring up the charges in the house, but we couldn't convict him in the senate. senator ted cruz is on record as having not talking about the birther issue but talking about impeachment and also taking that line of you know, could you impeach him in the house but we couldn't convict him in the senate. so it's not really a possibility. but it's a question. >> mccarthy stuff. thank you. and not jean mccarthy. thank you, wayne sclater, thank you jonathan. up next, mean and youy. and a very important programming note. you can catch "hardball" exclusively only at 7:00

eastern. starting next week, you'll have to tune in at 7:00. don't worry, i'll keep reminding you about this all week long. i want you to move with me to 7:00 eastern. i know how important this time of night is. it's sort of when we slow down. it's when i speed up. this is "hardball," the place for politics. this day calls you. to fight chronic osteoarthritis pain. to fight chronic low back pain. to take action. to take the next step. today, you will know you did something for your pain.

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what's in your wallet? yeah? then how'd i get this... [ voice of dennis ] ...safe driving bonus check? every six months without an accident, allstate sends a check. silence. are you in good hands? back to "hardball." and time for the sideshow". president obama is back in washington, of course, after taking a week off in martha's vineyard. the late show's david letterman commemorated his presidential vacation with this video last night. >> let's put together a segment about memorable presidential vacations and by god, we have it for you tonight. memorable presidential vacations throughout the years. i hope you enjoy this. ♪

♪ >> wow. now, now i see why he had the big hat. >> well, the president also introduced the newest member of his family, another portuguese waterdog named sunny who has joined bo another portuguese waterdog at the white house. almost every president had a pet. there's only been one first dog who has lived in the white house under two different presidents. spotty, a king charles, who was born in 19289 under president george bush 41 and then had the good fortune to return again with george w. bush when he became president in 2001. so two presidents for that dog. however the most famous by far

of all the white house is fal la, franklin roosevelt's is scottish terrier and mgm, the movie company made a movie about him called fala at hyde park in technicolor. the only first dog to be honored with a statue in a presidential memorial down in washington near the tidal basin. look at that big dog. next up, maine's republican governor paula page is in hot water today for allegedly claiming in a speech at eight private fund-raiser that president obama "hates white people." while the event was closed to the press, word of the remark leaked to the portland press newspaper which confirmed it with two other republican lawmakers who were present at the time. according to the herald, "lepage talked how obama could have been the best president ever if he had highlighted his by racial ever. he said the president hasn't done than because he hates white

people. lepage is up for re-election in 2014 and has a 39% approval rating which makes him one of the most unpopular governors in the u.s. he has since denied he made the remark. we'll find out whether he did or not. apparently there are a number of witnesses who said he did exactly that. more evidence by the way that the planet is getting warmer right now. global warming is here and we are responsible. why are so many republicans in denial? you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side.

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an legion added 1 routes notice ten cities including new york city. and samsung's new smartphone the galaxy megagoes on sale flion s friday through at&t. now backing to chris and "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." those science deniers over at the gop are getting served with another raft of scientific evidence that climate change is real and a big problem for everyone. an upcoming united nations report outlined in "the new york times" will show "scientists who were confident before have even more confidence that climate change is real, due to us, it's a threat to us, and the urgency to act is even greater than ever. now enter the republican party where proven science is merely

one of the few, well one of a few theories. >> scientists all over this world say that the idea of human induced global climate change is one of the greatest hoaxes perpetrated out of the scientific community. it is a hoax. there is no scientific consensus. >> carbon die ox died, mr. speaker, is a natural by-product of nature. carbon dioxide is natural. it occurs in earth. it is a part of the regular life cycle of earth. in fact, life on planet earth can't even exist without carbon dioxide. >> what is the republican plan to deal with carbon emissions which every major scientific organization has said is contributing to climate change? >> george, the idea that carbon dioxide is a carcinogen that is harmful to our environment is

almost comical. every time we exhale, we exhale carbon dioxide. every cow in the world, you know, when they do what they do, you've got more carbon dioxide. >> i don't know what he's talking about. talk about a straw man. boehner the speaker of the house coming out with something whack o saying it isn't causing cancer. nobody said that. they said it's causing climate change. oklahoma senator jim inhofe the worst of the breed here has written a book denying science subtly called the greatest hoax, how the global warming conspiracy threatens your future. ignore him. the problem is, these science deniers help governor account united states. they have the job to tell us the truth. joining me is chip saltsman, mike huckabee's campaign manager in the 2008 presidential race and michael mann, professor of meetology at penn state, author of the hockey stick and the climate wars, dispatches from the front lines.

professor, did you get your sound on there? >> i think we've got it. >> okay. >> let me ask you about this. you know, my sense is that climate change and evolution are like gravity. they're a fact. drop a quarter, it falls. it's a fact. don't argue about it. it's not one of the many theories out there. it is a scientific reality. if somebody has some other standard besides science, i want to hear what it is, business practices, religion, tell me you have some other way of judging something besides the scientific method. as a scientist, is there any doubt that climate changing is a problem and it's caused by man? >> well, there are a few things in science that we're ascertain about as the fact that we are warming the planet by increasing greenhouse gas concentrations through fossil fuel burning and other human activities. maybe gravity, maybe there are a few other propositions in science that we have as high a level of certainty about as we have about this issue of

human-caused climate change. >> so what from your perspective is the motive for questioning the science? >> well, unfortunately, the various talking points and we heard some of them in the clips that you played from climate change deniers often sound plausible, they sound roechbl to people aren't familiar with science or the underlying science of climate change, but they have a very thin veneer of credibility when you dig just a little bit beneath they will, you find there's no merit at all to these various talking points. who are you going to listen to, politicians advocating for fossil fuel interests or the world's scientific community, the u.s. national academy of sciences founded by a republican president, abraham lincoln which is firmly on record, global warming is real. it's caused by us. and it represents a serious threat if we don't do something about it. >> chip salts mann, looking at this politically from the republican side, what is the

argument that outweighs, well well accepted science? >> i'm not a scientist. >> i'm asking you, what's the other standard we should look at besides science looking for something whether it's true or not. is there some other way to judge it besides the science. >> i think the republicans i've talked to about this, they say look, we know we've got 7 billion on the patent using more resources. we've got to make changes if we're going to sustain that. there's a lot of republicans that do believe in renewable energies. they don't buy into the total package that we're going into an apocalyptic point of view that warming is going to destroy the earth as we know it. >> they're taking a gamble, making a gamble, they think there's a decent stake in not acting. >> i think some of them are acting. there's a lot of conservationists. >> the people you say it's not armageddon. okay, it's not apocalyptic. what basis do they have for

saying that? what knowledge do they have that they present against the strike community and the world to make a case it's not as serious as the scientists say it is? what evidence do they have? >> i'm not sure i know of the evidence. >> what does it mean to say it. >> what i'm talking. >> what is the foundation to the point. >> you're asking me from a political point of view. >> what is the foundation? i'm asking for a political point of view. that's their political foundation to challenge the science, is it religion, the old testament, commerce, what is it. >> all of the above. some of it is is the economy. they think that would wreck the economy as we know it. some of it is religious. the idea that manmade can destroy the world, that's something they think god does, not what man does. i think there's some of that all the above, whether you agree or not, that's what they say. >> we had a potential nuclear war between us and the soviets in the 1950s and '60s and i knew and you knew, chip, could have destroyed the world. let's not deny the potential of man to destroy the world. professor, it seems to me there

is an anti-science bent out there. it's fostered by the argument, maybe the old testament that says mankind has only lasteded as long as the begats added up starting with adam and eeb into the new testament. yet, there's scientific evidence that mankind in some form or another has been on this planet for over 3 million years going back to at least lucy. will there ever be a reconciliation of true mum knowledge through science and true human acceptance of knowledge. >> as you heard chip sort of allude to, there is a bit of a schism ta is emerging within the republican party. those like the chairman of the house science committee, lamar smith, a texan who denies climate change exists. he's the chair of the house science committee. maybe we need to rename it the houses anti-science committee given its current stance on issues like climate change.

there are those politician who's completely dismiss the underlying science but then you have more enlightened republicans like the former house committee chair, sher wood but lert, an old school pro science republican and you have folks like bob i think english south carolina. >> he's gone. >> a republican, a conservative republican. he was primaried by the koch brothers because he expressed an eb lightened view about climate change. >> let me ask you a fair question, i won't challenge you, chip. is the republican party leaning towards science or against it? >> i would hope to say we always lean towards science but on this case, there's many republicans across the board on this particular issue. like i said, i'm not a scientist. i don't read the book but i do believe in the republican, there's a lot that believe, we know we've got so many people ly living on the planet. >> the i hope people don't believe ignorance is bliss. full keep saying it's in dispute

and don't carefully don't read the journals or accept the science, you're always in the safe position of saying i guess it's in dispute so i'm not to blame. are you to blame. chip saltsman and michael mann, i do worry about huckabee though. thank you professor for coming on. i love penn state. we'll be right back after this with actor eric banna talking about the cameras on all of us, especially in the big cities. ♪ [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good. ♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines

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please remember starting next month "hardball" will be on exclusively at 7:00 eastern time. i know it means adjusting your evening ritual. i'm adjusting mine. i'm asking you to make the move with me. come with me, 7:00 eastern. we'll be on with "hardball" forever i hope. back after this. humans. even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com.

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ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger. the boston bombing this spring sparked a debate in this country about the growing presence of surveillance cameras. all over our cities. the grainy surveillance. it helped identify the two bombers but, here's the but, civil libertarians warn it comes

at a price. our shrinking personal privacy. that's the setting for the new thriller. closed circuit. a film that delves into the darkness run amok and living in a state of constant surveillance after a terrorist bombing in central london. two lawyers assigned to defend the lone surviving suspect find themselves against what looks like a massive conspiracy. let's watch. >> november 30th, 10:43. bright sunny day. innocent people. a truck approaches from the west entrance. 10:45 over. >> prior to the bombing there was no contact between mi 5 and the defendant. defense lawyers who ask the wrong sorts of questions, they're expendable. >> half a million closed circuit cameras in london. i'm sure there are at least half a dozen watching you right now. >> there are people who really want a conviction here.

>> should have kept your mouth shut. >> mi 5 do not kill people on the mainland. what have you got to show for it? >> we're simply trying to defend our client. drop your bag. >> get out of there now. >> got to see that movie. eric is the star of the film, closed circuit. how are you? i know you spent months shooting this film. it must have gotten to you. the idea, it used to be with mohammed atta. he was one of the people on the planes with the terrorists and yet afterwards we saw him at the atm getting money out. we saw him at walmart. there he is. and then later when we caught the boston bomber suspects, we see them. it turns out the local stores have been, like this, were just doing surveillance cameras and you can put them all together and almost follow a person during the day. >> it's amazing how much of someone's life you can piece together with just small

snippets of random closed circuit tv. we had a big murder case in australia last year where the accused was arrested based on very, very low quality, grainy footage inside a clothing store. we don't have a lot of it in melbourne, australia. and we were able to arrest the accused. >> they haven't put him away yet but it was a very fast breaking case that the police were able to recognize the accused through the window. so there is no doubt there is a place for it but it is the speed at which these liberties are being taken away that i guess. >> many of us went to high school and read 1984. you have a state where a tv set faces you and is watching you all the time. we're getting there. >> yeah. and it is funny. the general public is kind of catching up with it to a degree. the number of those cameras out there, having made the film, it makes you more aware -- >> how many in london. >>? half a million.

>> cameras. >> yeah. >> and whose cameras are they? >> most of them -- >> the department stores? >> that's the other thing. once you start to look for them you see them everywhere. not just on government property. you go to a restaurant and you see them inside a restaurant. you start looking and you notice they're everywhere. >> what's the point of them. >> if we're all behaving ourselves, presumably i would fall asleep watching footage of me. >> why would a restaurant have a camera on everybody? to see if you're stealing a fork? >> i guess if someone is reaching into the till. in australia we have a problem with binge drinking and so forth in the city. when you see the amount of behavior that -- >> can you do a british accent? >> it depends on where he is from, actually. my guy doesn't sound exactly like that. >> seriously, the american people are very glad we caught the bombers. >> we're happy of what's the down side? >> i guess the down side is how

can we control that information being used in the future? what happens when facial recognition comes in and they can profile everything we do and what kind of purchases we make? >> and the movie makes that point. >> it does. we deal with a cover-up by the british government. it is a classic thriller that we had no idea would be so timely. >> i've seen it in the trailers around washington. the name of the movie is, we don't call them films here. the name is "closed circuit." and we have the star with us, eric bennett. it is something we talk about all the time. we'll be right back after this. because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet. i don't always have time to eat like i should. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes.

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